DISCUSSION

ON

AMERICAN SLAVERY,

BETWEEN

GEORGE THOMPSON, ESQ.,
AGENT OF THE BRITISH AND FOREIGN SOCIETY FOR THE ABOLITION OF SLAVERY THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, AND

REV. ROBERT J. BRECKINRIDGE,
DELEGATE FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES, TO THE CONGREGATIONAL UNION OF ENGLAND AND WALES:

HOLDEN IN THE

REV. DR. WARDLAW'S CHAPEL, GLASGOW, SCOTLAND,

On the Evenings of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th of June, 1836,

WITH AN APPENDIX.

NEGRO UNIVERSITIES PRESS
NEW YORK

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INTRODUCTION.

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The following were the preliminary steps connected with the Discussion reported in the succeeding pages:—

Mr. Breckinridge's Letter, expressing his willingness to meet Mr. Thompson at Glasgow, was occasioned by the following passage in Mr. Thompson's Letter, which appeared in the London Patriot, in reply to the extracts inserted in that Journal, from the work published by the Rev. Drs. Cox and Hoby, entitled, "The Baptists in America":—

"In the mean time, I am ready to meet Dr. Cox in Exeter Hall, in his own chapel, or in any other building, to justify my charges against America and American Ministers; my general policy in the Anti-Slavery cause, and any particular act of which Dr. Cox complains. I am ready, also, and anxious to meet any American Clergyman, or other gentleman, in any part of Great Britain, to discuss the general question, or the propriety of that interference, of which so much has been said by persons who are otherwise engaged, and most praiseworthily so, in interfering with the institutions, social, political, and religious, of every other quarter of the Globe."

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MR. THOMPSON'S CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

To the Editor of the London Patriot.

SIR,

A friend in this city, with whom I have stopped for a day or two, on my way to Scotland, has put into my hands your paper of the 23d inst., which contains Mr. George Thompson's letter of the 13th, attacking Dr. Cox.

As to the difficulties which exist between those two gentlemen, I, of course, have no right to speak.

Mr. Thompson, however, has not contented himself with urging a particular controversy with Dr. Cox;—nor even a general controversy, free for all who desire to engage him, or call in question his 'charges against America, and American Ministers'—as slave-holding Ministers and Christians on the other side of the water. 'But,' says he, 'I am ready, also, and anxious to meet any American clergyman, or other gentleman, in any part of Great Britain, to discuss the general question, &c.:' that is, the general question of his 'charges against America and American ministers, touching the whole subject of African slavery in that country.'

After mature and prayerful consideration, and full consultation with a few friends, I am not able to see how I can avoid taking notice of this direct, and almost personal challenge; which, I have some reason to suspect, was probably intended for me.

And yet I feel myself encompassed by many difficulties. For some may consider me defending the institution of slavery; whereas I myself believe it to be contrary to the spirit of the gospel, and the natural rights of men. Others might naturally look for more full proofs, and more exact information than I can give, when relying almost entirely upon mere memory. While by far the greater part, I much fear, are as impatient of all investigation on the subject, as, I am sorry to say, they seem to me, totally unacquainted with its real condition in America.

I have concluded, however, to accept the somewhat boastful challenge of Mr. Thompson. And I trust the following suggestions and conditions will be considered most reasonable, when the peculiar circumstances of the case are considered:—

1. I will meet Mr. Thompson at Glasgow, any time during the three first weeks of June; and spend three or four hours a day, for as many days consecutively as may be necessary—in discussing the 'general question,' as involved in his 'charges against America, and American Ministers,' in reference to the whole subject of slavery there.

2. But as my whole object is to get before the British churches certain views and suggestions on this subject, which I firmly believe are indispensable, to prevent the total alienation of British and American christians from each other; I shall not consider it necessary to commence the discussion at all, unless such arrangements are previously made, as will secure the publication, in a cheap and permanent form, of all that is said and done on the occasion.

3. I must insist on a patient and fair hearing, by responsible persons. Therefore I will agree that the audience shall consist of a select number of gentlemen, say from fifty to five hundred; to be admitted by ticket only,—and a committee previously agreed on to distribute the tickets—only to respectable persons.

I take it for granted that Mr. Thompson would himself prefer Glasgow to any other city, for the scene of this meeting: as it is the home of his most active supporters. And while the selection of the particular time of it cannot be important to him, my own previous arrangements are such, as to leave me no wider range than that proposed to his choice above.

More minute arrangements are left to the future; and they can, no doubt, be easily made.

I must ask the favour of an early insertion of this note, in the Patriot; and beg to say, through you, to the Editor of the Glasgow Chronicle, that I shall feel obliged by its republication in his paper.

R. J. BRECKINRIDGE,

A Delegate from the General Assembly of the
Presbyterian Church of the U. S. America,
to the Congregational Union of England and
Wales.

Durham, May 28,1836.

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TO THE EDITOR OF THE GLASGOW CHRONICLE.

London, June 1, 1836.

SIR,

I forward you, without a moment's delay, a copy of this evening's Patriot, containing a letter from the Rev. Robert J. Breckinridge, of Baltimore, United States. The following is my reply, which you will oblige me by immediately inserting, in company with the communication to which it refers.

I feel thankful that my overture has been accepted; and, notwithstanding the arrangements I had made to remain in London during the whole of the present month, and the announcement of my name in the public advertisements to lecture during the forthcoming week, I shall, D. V. be in Glasgow on Tuesday next; and shall be ready to meet Mr. Breckinridge, in the Religious Institution House, South Frederick Street, at noon of that day, to settle the preliminaries of the discussion, which, I trust,

will commence the following morning.

It is my earnest hope, that every thing said and done, will be in accordance with gentlemanly feeling and christian courtesy.

Your's respectfully,

GEORGE THOMPSON.

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NOTE.

The Speeches and Documents in this Pamphlet having been submitted to the correction of the Speakers, the Report may be relied on as an accurate and full account of the important proceedings.

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DISCUSSION.

FIRST NIGHT—MONDAY JUNE 13.

Agreeably to public advertisement, the discussion betwixt Mr. George Thompson and the Rev. R. J. Breckinridge, was opened Monday evening, June 13. By half-past six, the hour fixed on by the Committee, Dr. Wardlaw's Chapel contained 1,200 individuals, the number agreed upon by both parties. A great number could not gain admittance, in consequence of the tickets allotted, being bought up on Saturday. On the entrance of the two antagonists, accompanied by the Committee, the audience warmly cheered them. By appointment of the Committee—

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Rev. Dr. WARDLAW took the Chair. Having thanked the Committee for the honor they had conferred on him, and which, he trusted, would meet with the concurrence of the meeting, he said he had accepted the honorable post with the utmost confidence in the forbearance and propriety of conduct of the two gentlemen—or antagonists, should he call them? who were to address the meeting; and also, with the most perfect confidence in the good conduct and sense of propriety possessed by the meeting. Had he not possessed such confidence, he would never have thought of undertaking the present task. Had he imagined that the present meeting would give way to similar expressions of feeling as had taken place within these walls on some former occasions, he would at once have declined the task, as one for which he was totally unfit,—he was not fit to manage storms. The parties on the present occasion were different from those to whom they had listened at the time to which he referred. One of them, it was true, was the same, and his character all of them knew. They knew his sentiments, his zeal, his eloquence, his devotedness to the great cause of which he was the fearless advocate. In reference to his opponent, on the present occasion, he would not dishonor that gentleman by naming him along with an individual who had stood before them formerly in opposition to their eloquent friend. He felt it to be his duty to introduce to them his friend—for he was allowed to call him so—the Rev. Mr. Breckinridge. That gentleman had come to this country, the accredited agent from the Presbyterian church—a large and influential body of Christians in America, to the congregational union of England and Wales. It was proper that he should state to the meeting that Mr. Breckinridge was no advocate of slavery—that he believed it to be opposed to the letter and spirit of the gospel, and as a proof how far he was in earnest in his professions in this matter, he had freely parted with a patrimonial estate so far as it consisted of slaves. (Cheers.) Having stated this, it might be further necessary that he should mention what gave rise to the present meeting. They were all aware, then, he said, that since his return from America, Mr. George Thompson had been lecturing in various parts of the kingdom. In the course of his labors he was accused of having brought extravagant and unfounded charges against the American nation, and especially against the ministers of religion in that country. In consequence of this, Mr. Thompson published a challenge in the Patriot newspaper, in which he called upon any American minister to come forward and defend his brethren, if he were able, from the charges which he brought against them. This challenge, through the columns of the same newspaper, had been accepted by Mr. Breckinridge, and now they were here met to enter upon the discussion. The Chairman then read the regulations with regard to the conducting of the discussion which had been agreed upon by the Committee. In addition to what they contained, he might add that the chairman was not to be considered judge of what was relevant or irrelevant, nor was the speaker to be interrupted on any account. He would especially beg their serious attention to the rule requiring the entire suppression of every symptom of approbation or disapprobation. He trusted that his interference would not be required, but if it were he would feel himself called upon by imperative duty to enforce this regulation with the utmost strictness. Mr. Breckinridge had heard from some quarter or other very unfavorable accounts of the decorum of a Glasgow audience. He hoped that their conduct on the present occasion would disabuse that gentleman's mind of any unfavorable opinion he might entertain of them on that score. In conclusion, he might repeat, that he placed the most perfect reliance on the good sense and gentlemanly feeling of both speakers. Let them both, then, be heard fairly. He solicited favor for neither—he demanded justice for both.

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Mr. BRECKINRIDGE said, it was not easy to conceive of circumstances that were more embarrassing than those in which he was placed this evening. They had already taken for granted all that had been said and done on one side of the question; their minds had been already made up to oppose those conclusions to which it was his purpose to bring them. Their affections and feelings had long been engaged to his opponent in this cause; and all that he could say would necessarily have little effect in changing what he would not hesitate to call those unhappy opinions, which were long ago formed against him. Another cause of his embarrassment was, that he would be rejudged of all he might say here. What he said would be approved by one party in America, but would be disapproved of by another. In the United States they were differently situated from what the people were in this country. Here the people seemed now united on this subject, but in America they were split up into a great number of different parties, whose opinions and feelings were arrayed against each other in as great a measure as it was possible to conceive. Whatever, therefore, he might say in this country, would be disapproved of by many in the United States, while nothing was more certain than that, what was said by his opponent, would the more commend him to his friends on the other side of the Atlantic; and nothing he could say would probably lower him in the good opinion of his friends here. Hence arose the difficulty of the situation in which he (Mr. B.) found himself placed, and his unusual claim upon their patience in the course of the discussion. Still he should be unworthy of his country, he should be forgetful of the power of truth, he would have little trust in God, if he was not ready to espouse the cause which he believed to be right; and more especially if he was not ready, before a Scotish and a Christian audience, to defend the principles he adopted and avowed. He had no desire to attempt a mitigation of their hatred to slavery; and if, at a future time, he should meet in America with any one now present, he would prove to them by the friendship of those who loved and respected him, and the opposition of those who did not, that he hated slavery as much as any one of those present could do. It was said by one of the ancients, 'I am a man: I consider nothing that relates to man, foreign to me.' It was a true and noble sentiment. The fate of the most hopeless might be theirs if power could make it so; and their condition might have been that of the poorest wretch on earth if God had not smiled upon them and their ancestors as

he had done. He did not wish them to interfere with slavery in America. They might interfere, but the question was, how were they to do so? He wished in the course of the discussion to bring before them facts to show, that if they did at all interfere with slavery in America, it must be done as between individuals, not as a national question. That, whatever they did, they do as Christians, not as communities. That they must not, for a moment, look upon it as a question of rival power and glory, as a question between Great Britain and America. If they did so in the slightest degree, their chance of success was gone for ever. In the prosecution of the question, they should not allow themselves to be identified in their efforts with any party in America, in politics, in religion, or metaphysics; more especially, with a small and odious party as they had done to a deplorable extent. They should not identify themselves with a party so small as not to be able to obtain their object, and so erroneous as not to deserve success. Whatever they did should be done meekly, and in the spirit of the gospel; they should not press the principles of the gospel with the spirit of a demon, but with all the sweetness and gentleness of the gospel of peace. These were the principles which he intended to endeavor to impress upon their minds by details which he would adduce in the course of the discussion. It was nothing more than just to the audience that they should know, that they should understand it distinctly, that as far as regarded his opponent, he neither was nor could be any thing more to him or his countrymen than as an individual who had identified himself with certain parties and principles in America. Neither he nor the Americans could have any object in underrating or overrating him. America could have no desire to raise him up or to pull him down. It is not, it cannot be any thing to America what any individual is, or may be, in the eyes of his own countrymen. The King of England is known to America only as the King of Great Britain; if he ceased to be the King of that kingdom, he was to them no more than a common individual. Let it not be supposed that either he or America had any wish, even the most remote, to break down or injure the well earned or ill earned reputation of his opponent. They looked upon him only with reference to his principles, and had no personal motive on earth in reference to that gentleman. Let them not, therefore, think that in any remarks he might make, or charges he might bring forward, he had any intention of implicating his opponent as being solely responsible for these results. He called in question, not the principles of a particular individual only, but those also of a party in America, to whom he would have to answer when he returned to that country. Having said thus much, he would now proceed to the question before them, but would previously make a few preliminary remarks, which he thought necessary to enable them to come to a proper understanding of the subject. He did not think it necessary to trace the progress of the great cause to the present moment. For forty years they had suffered defeat after defeat—yet these defeats only strengthened their cause, even in this country, till they had arrived at a given point. He would not wish to hurt the feelings of a single individual now present, but he was sure he spoke the feelings of all in America, when he said that the great day of their power to do good, as a nation, was to be dated from the passing of the Reform Bill. From that period, they started in a new career of action, both at home and abroad. The sending out of agents was one of the great lines of operation attempted upon the Americans. This the Americans complained of as having been done in an imprudent and impossible way, and sure to meet with defeat. They have sent out agents to America who have returned defeated. They admit they were not successful, though they say they retreated only, that they were not defeated. They have failed—they admit they have failed in their object. One of these agents on his return made certain statements as to the condition of the slaves in America; and as to the state of the churches in the United States, which implicated not only the great body of Christian ministers of the country, but the government, and the people of America, except a small handful of individuals. If, as was admitted, the number of pastors in America was twelve to fifteen thousand, and only one thousand had embraced these views, were they anything but a small party? While yet the whole nation was denounced as wicked—and the wrath of Heaven invoked against the country. It was only a very small handful that came in for a share of the praise of his opponent; and the sympathies here were invoked, on the assumption of principles which it was his object to prove false and unfounded. What could be the cause of such an anomaly? that those principles which are said to be loved and admired here, are repudiated there to the extremity of pertinacious obstinacy? This cause it would be his duty to point out; first, he would say what perhaps no one would believe, that the question of American slavery, is in its name not only unjust, but absurd. There was, properly speaking, no such thing as American slavery. It was absurd to talk of American slavery, except in so far as it applied to the sentiments of what was the minority, although he would say a large minority, which tolerated slavery. It was not an American question. In America there were twenty-four separate republics; of these, twelve had no slaves, and twelve of them tolerated slavery. Two new states had recently been added to the Union, and God speed the day when others would be added, till the whole continent, from the Atlantic to the Pacific was included in union, carrying with the union, Liberty and Independence. Of the two states which were lately added, one was a slave state and the other free. Of the twelve free, independent, sovereign states of America to which he had alluded—one, Massachusetts, had, for a longer time than his opponent had lived, not tolerated slavery. There were no slaves in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois, and in four of them there never had been a slave. Eight of them, of their own free will and choice, abolished slavery without money and without price. By the influence of the Spirit of God, and the influence of divine truth, they had totally abolished slavery. Of the twelve states, at least four, Ohio, with a million of inhabitants, Indiana, Illinois, and Maine, never had a slave. Since 1785 till this hour, there had not been one slave in any of these states. These twelve either never had slaves or had abolished slavery without any remuneration. These states contain seven million out of the eleven million of the white population of the Union, and nearly two-thirds of the territorial extent of the republic as now peopled. And when we remember that they have stood as they now do for the last twenty years, as it was now more than twenty years since slavery was abolished, how could they be charged with the responsibility of the existence of slavery in other states, or be charged with fostering slavery which they were the first people upon earth to abolish, and the first to unite with other nations in putting down the slave trade as piracy. This he was aware would be denied; but though Wilberforce had labored in the cause for twenty years, the American constitution had fixed a limited time for the abolition of the slave trade, and the moment the twenty years had elapsed, the Congress did abolish it; and this was in the same month, and some days before the Abolition Bill had passed through Parliament. Thus, America was the first nation on earth which had abolished the slave trade, and made it piracy. If we judge by the number of republics which

tolerate no slavery—if we judge by the number of American citizens who abhor slavery, it will be found not to be an American question, but one applicable only to a small portion of the nation. If he wished to prove that the British were idolaters, he could point to millions of idolaters in India, under the British Government, for every one in America who approved of slavery. If he wished to prove the British to be Catholics, and worshippers of the Virgin Mary, he could point to the west of Ireland, where were one thousand worshippers of the Virgin Mary for every one in America who did not wish slavery abolished. If he were to return to America, and get up public meetings, and address them about British idolatry, because the Indians were Idolaters, or on British Catholicism, because many of the Irish worshipped the Virgin Mary, would not the world at once see the absurdity and maliciousness of the charge; and if he heaped upon Britain every libellous epithet he could invent—if he got the wise, the good, and the fair, to applaud him, would not the world see at once the grossness of the absurdity. And where, then, lay the difference? The United States Government have no power to abolish slavery in South Carolina—Britain can abolish idolatry throughout its dominions. It was absurd to say it was an American question. America, as a nation, was not responsible, either in the sight of God or man, for the existence of slavery within certain portions of the Union. As a nation, it had done every thing within its power. The half hour having now expired, Mr. B. sat down; and

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Mr. THOMPSON rose. He said he did not stand on the platform this evening to explain to them his views in reference to slavery. He would occupy no portion of their time by an exposition of any of the principles or views entertained by himself on the subject of slavery as it has existed in our own dependencies, or as it exists in America at the present moment, or in other portions of the globe. He stood there to justify that policy which in a distant land he had deemed it right to pursue; he stood there to justify the policy which had been adopted and pursued, and was still pursued by certain individuals in the United States, whether many or few, whether a handful or a multitude, who were known by the name of the abolitionists of the United States of America. He stood there to justify himself and them in the act of fearlessly, constantly, unceasingly, and universally, to every class and color on the face of the habitable globe, enunciating the great principles of equal justice and equal rights—of enunciating this great truth that slaveholding is a crime in the sight of God, and should be immediately and totally abolished. That God had in no instance given to man a discretionary power to hold property in his fellow-man; that instant emancipation was the right of the slave; that instant manumission was the duty of the master. That no government had a right to keep a single soul in slavery; that no nation had authority to permit slavery, let that nation exist where it may; if professing to be a Christian nation, so much the more atrocious was their wickedness. The nation which permitted the keeping in slavery of God's creatures, which allowed the traffic in human beings for 400 pieces of silver, even in the capital itself, was not entitled to be called a christian nation, and if professing to be a christian nation, so much the more pre-eminently wicked and infamous was the nation. By that act that infamous, wicked nation violated every christian feeling, and was worthy of being exposed to the scorn and derision of every nation under heaven, christian or pagan. This was a most momentous question, and he spoke strongly upon it, but he spoke advisedly. He did not speak angrily, but he did and must speak warmly on the subject of Slavery. He could not talk of millions of men and women, each of whom was endowed with a soul which was precious in the sight of God—each of whom was endowed with that principle which out-valued worlds—he could not speak of such, registered with the brutes, with calm unconcern, or classed with chattels, and be calm—if he could do so, he should be ready with these nails to open his breast, and tear therefrom a heart which would be unworthy of a man. He could and would speak calmly on other topics, but this was a subject which required energy, unceasing energy, till the evil was removed from the face of the earth, till all the kingdoms of the world had become the kingdoms of our God, and of his Christ. He was thankful for the present opportunity which had been afforded him of entering into this discussion; he was thankful that his opponent, for so it seemed he must be called, was an American, that he was a christian minister, that he was an opponent of slavery, that he brought to the question before them, talent, learning, patriotism, and christian feeling. Such an opponent he respected and wished the audience to respect. He would ask them to cherish his person, to respect his opinions, to weigh his arguments, to test his facts, and if they were just and righteous, to adopt his principles. If he (Mr. T.) knew the strongest expression he had ever used regarding America, he would use it to-night; if he knew in what recess of his heart his worst wish towards America was deposited he would drag it forth to the light, that his opponent might grapple with it in their presence. He would not soften down any of his language; he would not sugar over his words, he would not abate one iota of what he had ever said in reference to the wickedness of America on former occasions. Let his opponent weigh every syllable he (Mr. T.) had uttered, every statement he had ever made, every charge he had ever brought against his country or against his cloth, and if he found that he had exaggerated facts or stated what was not true, he would be glad to be shown it. He was there before them and his opponent to search after the truth, truth which would outlive Mr. Breckinridge—truth which would outlive Geo. Thompson—truth which was far more valuable than the proudest victory—truth which was invaluable to both—and let the truth stand out during the discussion which might follow; and when they had found out the truth, if they saw anything which had to be taken back—anything to be given up—anything for which to be sorry, he would try to outstrip his opponent in his readiness to retract what was wrong, to yield what was untenable, and to express his sorrow before God and the audience for what he had undeservedly said of America. With regard to the feelings he entertained towards the Americans, he need only refer to the last letter he had published to the American people, from which he would read a passage to show the feelings he entertained towards that country, as well as to those of her citizens who might reach these shores from America. Mr. Thompson then read the following passages:—

and untamed, in the unsubdued wildernesses of the 'far west.' I love your country, because it is the theatre of the sublimest contest now waging with darkness and despotism, and misery on the face of the globe; and because your country is ordained to be the scene of a triumph, as holy in its character and as glorious in its results, as any ever achieved through the instrumentality of men.

But though my soul yearns over America, and I desire nothing more eagerly than to see her stand forth among the nations of the world, unsullied in reputation, and omnipotent in energy, yet shall I, if spared, deem it my duty to publish aloud her wide and fearful departures from rectitude and mercy. I shall unceasingly proclaim the wrongs of her enslaved children; and, while she continues to 'traffic in the souls of men,' brand her as recreant to the great principles of her revolutionary struggle, and hypocritical in all her professions of attachment to the cause of human rights.

I thank God, I cherish no feelings of bitterness or revenge, towards any individual in America, my most inveterate enemy not excepted. Should the sea on which I am about to embark receive me ere I gain my native shore—should this be the last letter I ever address to the people of America, Heaven bears me witness, I with truth and sincerity affirm that, as I look to be freely forgiven, so freely do I forgive my persecutors and slanderers and pray—'Lord lay not this sin to their charge.'

In another part of the same letter he had thus expressed himself:—

These extracts were from the last letter that he had written to the people of America, and which had been widely published there; and he was glad of an opportunity of now laying them before a Glasgow audience, and of having them incorporated in the proceedings of the evening, in order to show that he then forgave America, that he now forgave America. He would stand there to defend the right of Mr. Breckinridge to a fair hearing from his (Mr. Thompson's) countrymen; and stand forward as his protector, to save him from the missile that might be aimed at him, and to receive into his own bosom the dagger which might be aimed at his heart. His opponent might be anxious to know what report he (Mr. T.) made on his return to Britain of his proceedings in America. He would therefore read an extract from the minutes of the London Society for Universal Emancipation:—

Travelling Preachers, Local Preachers, Trustees, Stewards, Class Leaders, private Members, and other attendants in the Churches of the Episcopal Methodists, with the preachers and subordinate members of the other denominations, are, with few exceptions, Slaveholders. Many of the preachers, not merely possessing domestic Slaves, but being planters 'on a pretty extensive scale,' and dividing their time between the duties of the Pastoral Office and the driving of a gang of Negroes upon a cotton, tobacco, or rice plantation.

In the great pro-Slavery Meetings at Charleston and Richmond, the clergy of all denominations attended in a body, and at the bidding of vigilance Committees suspended their Schools for the instruction of the colored population, receiving as their reward a vote of thanks from their lay Slaveholding Brethren 'for their prudent and patriotic conduct.'

G. T. gave a most encouraging account of the present state of the Anti-Slavery cause, as nearly as it could be ascertained by letters recently received. He stated that there were now, exclusive of the Journals published by the Anti-Slavery Societies, 100 newspapers boldly advocating the principles of Abolition. Between 4 and 500 auxiliary associations, comprising 15 or 1700 Ministers of the Gospel of various denominations. G. T. stated also a number of particulars, shewing the rapid progress of correct opinions amongst the Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Methodists and Baptists, producing a Document just received from the last named body, signed by 185 Clergymen, being a reply to a letter addressed by the Baptist ministers in and near London to the Baptist Churches of America, and fully reciprocating all their sentiments on the subject of immediate and entire emancipation. The cause was proceeding with accelerated rapidity. Ten or twelve Agents of the National Society were incessantly laboring with many others employed by the State Societies, of which there were seven, viz. Kentucky, (a slave State,) Ohio, New York, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont. Gerrit Smith, Esq. a competent authority, had stated that every week witnessed an accession to the ranks of the Abolitionists of not less than 500, in the State of New York alone, and he did not know that in all the Societies there was one intemperate or profane person. G. T. in describing the character of the persons comprising the Anti-Slavery Societies in America, stated, that they were universally men and women of religious principles, and, in most instances, of unquestioned piety. He had never known any benevolent enterprise carried forward more in dependence upon Divine Direction and Divine Aid, than the abolition cause in the United States. In all their meetings, public or social, they committed themselves to God in Prayer, and he had found that those who had been most vehemently denounced as 'Fanatics and Incendiaries' were men sound in judgment, calm in temper, deliberate in council, and prudent, though resolute, in action. The great principle on which all their Societies were founded was the essential sinfulness of slaveholding, and the consequent necessity of its immediate and entire abolition. The great means by which they had sought to accomplish their object, was the fearless publication of the truth in love, addressed to the understandings and hearts of their fellow citizens. Expediency was a doctrine they abjured. Free from a time-serving or timid spirit, they boldly relied upon the righteousness of their cause, the potency of truth, and the blessing of God. They were entitled to receive from the Abolitionists of Great Britain the warmest commendation, the fullest confidence, and most cordial co-operation.

He was happy in being able to state, that wherever the principles of immediate abolition had been fully adopted, prejudice against color had been thrown aside, and that the members of the Anti-Slavery Societies throughout the country were endeavoring by every proper means to accomplish the moral, intellectual, and spiritual elevation of the colored population.

He hoped he would yet have ample opportunities of replying to the positions assumed by his opponent. He thought he would be able to show that slavery in America was American slavery; that the Congress of America—that the Constitution of America made it an institution of the country, and therefore a national sin of America. In reference to any question as to the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, he was glad he had to do with a gentleman who knew these well, who held a high character for his Constitutional and legal attainments; and he hoped he would be able to show that Slavery in America was American Slavery—that the people in the North did not hate slavery—that they did not oppose slavery—that they were the greatest supporters of slavery in the United States—that slavery in America was a national question. But he would keep his proofs till he had time to say something along with them. Our interference was not a political interference with America, it was only a moral interference, to put an end to slavery—and he hoped the people of this country, would continue to denounce slavery in America; and at the same time he was quite willing that his opponent should denounce the idolatry of our eastern possessions.

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Mr. BRECKINRIDGE said, he would take up the line of argument in which he had been proceeding; but before doing so he wished to make one observation. How did it happen—admitting all that had been said by his opponent to be true and fair, how did it happen, that the same arguments and the same principles were so differently received in different countries? How did it happen that the individual who advocated the same cause, with the same temper, and almost in the same words, in Glasgow and in Boston, should in the one place be supported by general applause, and in the other be ill-treated and despised, and even made to flee for his life? This was a question which was yet to be solved. Mr. Thompson had spoken of the Northern states as the greatest friends of slavery, forgetting that he had formerly represented the clergy as such. This was one of the principal reasons of his want of success—of what might justly be called his signal failure. He had brought unjust charges against an entire people, and had in consequence been ill-treated. Mr. Thompson had shown the better part of valor, discretion, in taking care never to visit any of the slave states. He had never seen a slaveholder, except, perhaps, he had met such an individual in a free state. At least if he had done so, it was a circumstance which was not generally known, one of those hidden things of which it was not permitted to read. Having made this observation, he (Mr. B.) would proceed to state that in the slaveholding states there was a large minority—in some, nearly one half of the population—zealously engaged in furthering the abolition of slavery. In Kentucky, slaveholding had been introduced only by a small majority. When some time after, a convention canvassed the subject, that majority was diminished, and, still at this hour in that State, in which he had been born, one of the greatest political questions agitated was whether slaveholding should be abolished or retained as an element of the constitution. A law had long ago been passed imposing a fine of six hundred dollars on whoever brought a slave into the State for sale, and three hundred dollars on whoever bought him. A fine of nine hundred dollars was thus made the penalty of introducing a slave into Kentucky as merchandise. He was sorry to have to speak of buying and selling human beings; but, to be understood, it was absolutely necessary that he should do so. In Virginia also, from which Kentucky had been in great measure peopled, not many years ago a frightful insurrection had taken place, and many cruelties had been practised—it was needless to say whether most on

the side of the blacks or the whites. The succeeding legislature of that State took up the question of slavery in its length and breadth—passed a law for giving $20,000 to the Colonization Society,—and rejected only by a small majority a proposal to appropriate that fund equally to the benefit of slaves to be set free—as of those already free. He mentioned these things merely to show that there was a great and an increasing party in the south favorable to the abolition of negro slavery. In fact, in some of the Southern states the free people of color had increased faster than the whites; in Maryland alone there were 52,000 of a free colored population, all of whom, or their immediate progenitors, had been voluntarily manumitted. It was needless to say, therefore, that in the Southern states there was no anti-slavery party. There certainly was not such a party in Mr. Thompson's sense of the word; but Mr. Thompson's definition was not the correct one, as he (Mr. B.) would explain directly. Was it fair then, he would ask, to hold up to the British public, not only the people of the free states, but also this great minority in the Southern states as pro-slavery men. Let slavery be denounced, but let not the denunciation fall upon the whole American people, many of whom were doing all they could for its abolition. If Louisiana resolved on perpetuating slavery, let this be told of Louisiana. If South Carolina adhered to the system, say so of South Carolina; but do not implicate the mass of the American people, so many of whom are as much opposed to slavery as is Mr. Thompson himself. He had heard it said that the sun never sat on the British dominions. As well, then, might the British people be identified with the idolatry which prevailed in Hindostan as the Americans be identified with negro slavery. The question was not American; it existed solely between the slaveholder and the world. It was unfair, therefore, to blame the Americans as a nation: the slaveholder, and the slaveholder alone, should be blamed, let him reside where he might. Having thus disposed of the first branch of his argument, he was naturally led to explain the wonderful phenomenon of Mr. Thompson's reception in America—to give a reason why that reception was so different from what the same gentleman met with in Glasgow. Mr. Thompson had taken up the question as one of civil organization. Now the fact was, that the American nation was divided into two parties on the subject, namely, the pro-slavery, and the anti-slavery parties. One party said, let it alone; the other, and by far the most numerous party, said, something ought to be done in relation to it. In the last named class, was to be included the population of all the non-slaveholding states. He declared, in the presence of God, his conviction, that there was not a sane man in the free states who did not wish the world rid of slavery. He believed the same of a large minority in the states in which slavery existed. The pro-slavery party themselves were also divided. One section, and he rejoiced to add, a small one, called into exertion in fact only by that effervesence which had been produced by the violence of Mr. T's friends—spoke of slavery as an exceedingly good thing—as not only consistent with the law of God, but as absolutely necessary for the advancement of civilization. This party was organised within the last few years, and met the violence of Mr. Thompson's party by a corresponding violence, as a beam naturally seeks its balance. Another section of the pro-slavery party, considered slavery a great evil, and wished that it were abolished, but they did not see how this could be effected. They had been born in a state of society where it had an existence, and they could see no course to adopt but to let it cure itself. These were the two sections into which the supporters of slavery were divided. The anti-slavery party was also composed of individuals who had different views of the subject. The one class had been called Gradualists, Emancipationists, and Colonizationists.—The other were called Abolitionists. With the latter class, Mr. Thompson had identified himself. And now, as while in America, by his praises of Mr. Garrison, and all their leaders, his abuse of their opponents, and his efforts to chain the British public, hand and foot, to them and their projects, shows his continued devotion to them. He would refer to this party again, but, in the mean time, he would only say, that its members manifested far more honesty than wisdom. In 1833, the abolitionists held a Convention in Philadelphia, at which they drew up a Declaration of Independence—a declaration which he dared to say Mr. Thompson cherished as the apple of his eye; but which had been more effectual in raising mobs than ever witch was in raising the wind. The document of which he spoke announced three principles, to the promulgation of which, the members of the Convention pledged their lives and their fortunes. A number of the particulars specified, in support of which they said they would live and die, went to change materially the laws and Constitution of the United States, and yet it was pretended that this was not a political question! Their first principle was, that every human being has an instant right to be free, irrespective of all consequences; and incapable of restriction or modification. The second was like unto it, that the right of citizenship, inherent in every man, in the spot where he is born, is so perfect, that to deprive him of its exercise in any way whatever—even by emigration, under strong moral constraint, is a sin. Their third principle was, that all prejudice against color was sinful; and that all our judgments and all our feelings towards others should be regulated exclusively by their moral and intellectual worth. Mr. B. said he stated these principles from memory only—as he did most of the facts on which he relied. But he was willing to stand or fall, in both countries, upon the substantial accuracy of his statements. Mr. Breckinridge here closed his address, the period allotted to him having expired.

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Mr. THOMPSON was anxious to lay before the meeting documentary testimony, in preference to any thing he could say himself. Rather than set forth his own views, as he had done on many former occasions, he wished to bring forward such documents as even his opponent would admit to be really American. He pledged himself to show that this was an American question. He was not prepared for this branch of the subject, because he had not expected that Mr. Breckinridge would exonerate America from the charge of being a slaveholding nation; nevertheless, he was perfectly ready to take it up. He would undertake to prove that the existence of slavery in the United States was the result of a compromise—that the Constitution of the United States was, in fact, based upon a compromise, in relation to this subject. At the time when the Constitution was agreed to, the then slaveholding states refused to come into what was called the confederacy of republics, unless slaveholding was permitted. At that time there were only three hundred thousand slaves in the Union; now there were two millions and a half. So much, said Mr. Thompson, for what the good and influential men of the South, spoken of by Mr. Breckinridge, had done for the abolition of slavery. Then there were three hundred thousand; now there were two million four hundred thousand. The method by which these good and influential people had gone about extirpating slavery, had been an Irish method; it had shown distinctly the extent of their zeal and usefulness. Why, setting aside their influence altogether, they might, had they been as numerous as represented by his respected opponent, have manumitted as many of their own slaves. It was said, no doubt, that the laws prevented this; but who made the laws? The child could not do what her mamma had commanded her to do, because she was tied to

the mahogany table, she could only answer, when asked who tied her, that it was herself. In like manner, he could turn round on those whom his respected opponent represented, as haters of slavery. Emancipationists they wished to be called; colonizationists they ought to be called. He would ask them, what had they done? Had they not compromised every principle of justice and truth, by permitting slaveholding in their Union? Had they not even bestowed exclusive privileges on the slaveholders? Had they not bestowed on them such privileges as that, even now, they sent twenty-four or twenty-five representatives to Congress more than their proportion? His respected opponent had said this was not a national question. Why, then, send six thousand bayonets to the South for the protection of the slaveholder? Why were the American people taxed in order to maintain bayonets, blunderbusses, and artillery in the South? Not a national question! Why, then, was Missouri admitted a member of the Union—Missouri a slaveholding State, admitted by the votes of the Northern republics. Mr. Breckinridge had fought very shy of the state of the Capital, and the power of Congress to suppress the internal traffic in slaves. He (Mr. Thompson) trusted, however, that this branch of the subject would be taken up. His opponent himself, in a letter addressed to the New York Evangelist, had stated, that Congress possessed full power to suppress the internal traffic in slaves; and yet they did it not. There was in fact no question at all respecting the power of the Congress, in this matter; yet it was said the question of slavery was not national. The people of the Northern states,—the slavery-hating, liberty-loving people of the Northern states had said they would fight shoulder to shoulder with the Slaveholders of the South, should the slaves dare to rise and say they were men, and after all this, it was asserted that this was not a national question. Mr. Breckinridge had said, that he (Mr. Thompson) got all his information at second hand. He might have told the reason why; he knew, however, that such a revelation would have been awful. He knew that pious men, advocates of the cause of abolition had been hanged, butchered, their backs ploughed up by Presbyterian elders; and if such had been done towards natives of New England, what could a stranger such as he have expected? He (Mr. T.) had, it seems, got all at second hand. He would tell the meeting where he had obtained some of his information. From Mr. Breckinridge himself; and he must say, that sounder or juster views respecting slavery—or a more complete justification of the mission in which he (Mr. T.) had been so lately engaged, could scarcely be met with. This was evidence which he had no fear could be ruled out of court. It was that of the friend and defender of America. Mr. T. then read the following passage from a speech delivered by Mr. Breckinridge:—