y^t whiche dieth neuer, but alwayes cõtaineth in it the godly nature.
Hedo. And also, that false deceiueable & coûterfetted holy thynges, are not too bee taken for those, which in very dede be godly.
Spude. No more then the shaddowes are too bee estemed for the bodies, or the illusions and wonders of wytchcraftes or the fantasies of dreames, are too bee taken as true thynges.
HE. Hitherto you answer aptly too my purpose, and I thynke you wyl graunt me this thyng also, that true and godly pleasure can reste and take place no where but only on such a mynd that is sobree and honest.
SPV. What elles? for no man reioyseth too beholde the Sunne, if his eyes bee bleared or elles delecteth in wyne, if the agew haue infected hys tast.
HED. And the Epicure hymselfe, or elles I am disceiued, would not clippe & enbrace that pleasure, whiche would bring with it farre greater payne and suche as would bee of long continuaunce.
SPV I thynke he woulde not, if he had any wytte at all.
HED. Nor you wyll not denye this, that God is the chiefe and especiall goodnes, then whõ there is nothyng fayrer, there is nothyng ameabler, ther is nothing more delicious and swetter.
SPVDE. No man wyll deny thys except he bee very harde hearted and of an vngentler nature then the Ciclopes.
HED. Nowe you haue graunted vnto me, that none lyue in more pleasure, then thei whyche lyue vertuouslye, and agayne, none in more sorowe and calamytie then those that lyue vngratiously.
Spu. Then I haue graûted more thê I thought I had.
He. But what thing you haue ones cõfessed too bee true (as Plato sayth) you should not deny it afterward.
SPV. Go furth with your matter.
HEDO The litle whelpe y^t is set store and greate price by, is fed most daintely, lieth soft, plaieth and maketh pastime continually, doo you thinke that it lyueth plesaûtly?
SPV. It dooeth truely.
HEDO. Woulde you wyshe to haue suche a lyfe?
SPV. God forbyd that, excepte I woulde rather bee a dogge then a man,
HEDO. Then you confesse that all the chief pleasures arise and spring frõ the mynd, as though it were from a welspryng.
SPV. That is euident ynough.
HE. Forsoth the strength and efficacy of the minde is so great, that often it taketh away the felyng of al externe and outward pain & maketh that pleasaunt, which by it selfe is very peynful.
SPV. We se that dayly in louers, hauyng great delight to sytte vp long & too daunce attendaunce at their louers doores all the colde wynter nyghtes.
HEDo. Now weigh this also, if the naturall loue of man, haue suche great vehemency in it, which is a cõmune thyng vnto vs, both with bulles and dogges, howe much more should all heauenly loue excell in vs, which cõmeth of y^e spirit of Christ, whose strêgthe is of suche power, that it would make death a thîg most terrible, too bee but a pleasure vnto vs.
Spu. What other men thîke inwardly I know not, but certes thei wãt many pleasures which cleaue fast vnto true and perfect vertue.
He. What pleasures?
Spu. Thei waxe not rich, thei optein no promotiõ, thei bãket not, thei daûce not, thei sing not, thei smell not of swete oyntmêtes, thei laugh not, thei play not.
He. We should haue made no mention in thys place of ryches and prefermente, for they bryng wyth them no pleasaunt lyfe, but rather a sadde and a pêsiue. Let vs intreate of other thynges, suche as they chiefely seeke for, whose desyre is to liue deliciously, see ye not daily drõkerdes, fooles, and mad menne grinne and leape?
SPV. I see it
HED. Do you thynke that thei liue most pleasaûtly?
SPV God send myne enemies such myrth & pleasure.
HE. Why so?
Sp. For ther lacketh emongist thê sobrietie of mind.
HE. Then you had leuer sit fastyng at your booke, then too make pastime after any suche sorte.
SP. Of thê both: truly I had rather chose to delue.
H. For this is plaine that betwixt the mad mã & the drûkerd ther is no diuersitie, but y^t slepe wil helpe the one his madnes, & with much a doo y^e cure of Physicions helpeth the other, but the foole natural differeth nothing frõ a brute beast except by shape and portrature of body, yet thei be lesse miserable whom nature hathe made verye brutes, then those that walowe theim selues in foule and beastly lustes.
SP. I confesse that.
Hedo. But now tell me, whether you thynke thê sobre and wyse, which for playn vanities and shadowes of plesure, booth dispice the true and godlye pleasures of the mynde and chose for them selues suche thynges as bee but vexacion & sorowe.
SPV. I take it, thei bee not.
Hedo. In deede thei bee not drûke with wyne, but with loue with anger, with auarice, with ambicion, and other foule and filthie desires, whiche kynde of drunkenes is farre worse, thê that is gotten with drinking of wine. Yet Sirus y^t leude cõspaniõ of whom mention is made in y^e commedie, spake witty thynges after he had slepte hym self soobre, and called too memorie his greate and moost beastlye drunkenes: but the minde that is infected with vicious & noughty desire, hath muche a doo too call it selfe whom agein? How many yeares doeth loue, anger, spite, sensualitie, excesse, and ambition, trouble and prouoke the mynde? How many doo wee see, whiche euen from their youth, too their latter dais neuer awake nor repêt them of the drunkennes, of ambitiõ, nigardnes, wanton lust, & riatte?
Spu. I haue knowen ouermany of y^t sorte.
Hedo. You haue graûted that false and fayned good thinges, are not too bee estemed for the pure and godly.
Sp. And I affirme that still.
Hedo. Nor that there is no true and perfect pleasure, except it bee taken of honest and godly thynges.
Spud. I confesse that.
He. Then (I pray you) bee not those good that the commune sorte seeke for, they care not howe?
Spu. I thinke they be not.
Hedo. Surely if thei were good, they would not