merebãkes extend.
SPE. And I cannot but muse styll, yea, and wonder very muche, why ther hath been so great controuersie in iudgementes vpon so weightie a matter (as this is) emongist so well learned menne: especially suche as bee most famous and auncient writers.
HEDO. This was euen the cause, where the verite of a thyng is playne and manifest, cõtrarily, y^e errour through ignoraunce againe in the same, is soone great & by diuers meanes encreaseth, for y^t thei knewe not the foundation and first beginnyng of the whole matter, they doo iudge at all auentures and are very fondly disceaued, but whose sentence thynke you too bee truest?
SPE. Whan I heare MARCVS Tullius reproue the thyng, I then fãtasie none of all their iudgementes, and whan I heare hym agayne defende the cause: it maketh me more doubtfull thê euer I was and am in suche a studie, that I can say nothyng. But as I suppose y^e Stoickes haue erred the lest, and nexte vnto thê I commend the Peripatetickes.
HEDo. Yet I lyke none of their opinions so well as I doo the Epicures.
SPV. And emõgist all the sectes: the Epicures iudgement is most reproued and condemned with the whole consent and arbitremêt of all menne.
HED. Let vs laye a side all disdayne and spite of names, and admitte the Epicure too bee suche one, as euery man maketh of hym. Let vs ponder and weighe the thyng as it is in very deed. He setteth the high and principall felicitie of man in pleasure, and thiketh that lyfe most pure and godly, whiche may haue greate delectatiõ and pleasure, and lytle pensiuenes.
SPV. It is euen so.
HED. What more vertuouser thyng, I praye you, is possible too bee spokê then this saiyng.
Spu. Yea, but all menne wonder and crye out on it, and saye: it is the voyce of a bruite beast, and not of manne.
Hedo. I knowe thei doo so, but thei erre in y^e vocables of theise thinges, and are very ignoraunt of the true and natiue significations of the woordes, for if wee speake of perfecte thynges, no kinde of menne bee more righter Epicures, then Christen men liuing reuerêtly towardes God and mã, and in the right seruice and worshiping of Christ.
SPV But I thinke the Epicures bee more nerer and agree rather with the Cynickes, then with the Christien sorte: forsoth y^e Christiens make them selues leane with fastynge, bewayle and lament their offences, and eyther they bee nowe poore, or elles theyr charitie and liberalitie on the nedye maketh theim poore, thei suffer paciently to bee oppressed of mêne that haue great power and take many wronges at their handes, and many men also laughe theim too skorne. Nowe, if pleasure brynge felicitie wyth it, or helpe in anye wyse vnto the furderaunce of vertue: we see playnly that this kynde of lyfe is fardest from al pleasures.
Hedonius. But doo you not admitte Plautus too bee of authoritie?
Speudeus. Yea, yf he speake vprightely.
Hedonius. Heare nowe them, and beare awaye wyth you the saiynge of an vnthriftie seruaunt, whyche is more wyttier then all the paradoxes of the Stoickes.
SPE. I tarie to heare what ye wil say.
HEDO. Ther is nothyng more miserable then a mynd vnquiet & agreued with it selfe.
SPE. I like this saiyng well, but what doo you gather of it?
HEDO. If nothing bee more miserable thê an vnquiet mynde, it foloweth also, that there is nothing happiar, then a mynde voyde of all feare, grudge, and vnquietnes.
SPEV. Surely you gather the thing together with good reasõ but that notwithstandynge, in what countrie shall you fynde any such mynde, that knoweth not it selfe gyltie and culpable in some kynde of euell,
HEDO. I call that euyll, whiche dissolueth the pure loue and amitie betwixt God and manne.
SPV. And I suppose there bee verye fewe, but that thei bee offêders in this thynge.
HEDO. And in good soth I take it, that al those y^t bee purdged, are clere: whych wiped out their fautes with lee of teares, and saltpeter of sorowfull repentaunce, or els with the fire of charitie, their offêces nowe bee not only smalle grefe and vnquietnes too them, but also chaunce oftê for some more godlier purpose, as causing thê too lyue afterward more accordyngly vnto Gods commaûdemêtes.
SPV. In deede I knowe saltpeter and lee, but yet I neuer hearde before, that faultes haue been purdged with fire.
H. Surely, if you go to the minte you shall see gould fyned wyth fyre, notwithstãdyng that ther is also, a certaine kynde of linê that brenneth not if it bee cast in y^e fyre, but loketh more whiter then any water coulde haue made it, & therefore it is called Linum asbestinum, a kynde of lynen, whyche canne neither bee quenched with water nor brent with fyre.
Spu. Nowe in good faith you bring a paradox more wõderful then all the maruailous and profound thynges of the Stoickes: lyue thei pleasasauntly whom Chryst calleth blessed for that they mourne & lament?
Hedonius. Thei seme too the worlde too mourne, but verely they lyue in greate pleasure, and as the commune saiynge is, thei lyue all together in pleasure, in somuche that SARDANAPALVS, Philoxenus, or Apitius compared vnto them: or anye other spoken of, for the greate desyre and study of pleasures, did leade but a sorowefull and a myserable lyfe.
Spe. These thinges that you declare bee so straunge and newe, that I can scarcelye yeoue any credite vnto them.
Hedo. Proue and assaye them ones, and you shall fynde all my saiynges so true as the Gospell, and immediatly I shal bryng the thynge too suche a conclusion (as I suppose) that it shall appeare too differ very lytle from the truth
SPV. make hast then vnto your purpose.
HED. It shalbe doone if you wyll graunt me certayne thynges or I begynne.
Spu. If in case you demaunde suche as bee resonable.
Hedo. I wyl take myne aduauntage, if you confesse the thyng that maketh for mine intent.
Spu. go too.
Hedo. I thynke ye wyll fyrste graunt me, that ther is great diuersitie betwxt the solle and the bodye
Spu. Euen as much as there is betwene heauen and yearth, or a thyng earthly and brute, &