what I meant to say of the primitive architecture and the primitive music, that they soon come to their limit; they soon are exhausted, and can do nothing more. If you attempt more, it's like taxing a musical instrument beyond its powers."... Campbell: "This is literally true as regards Gregorian music, instruments did not exist in primitive times which could execute any other."... Reding: "... Modern music did not come into existence till after the powers of the violin became known. Corelli himself, who wrote not two hundred years ago, hardly ventures on the shift. The piano, again, I have heard, has almost given birth to Beethoven." Campbell: "Modern music, then, could not be in ancient times for want of modern instruments, and, in like manner, Gothic architecture could not exist until vaulting was brought to perfection. Great mechanical inventions have taken place both in architecture and in music, since the age of Basilicas and Gregorians; and each science has gained by it." Reding: "... When people who are not musicians have accused Handel and Beethoven of not being simple I have always said, 'is Gothic architecture simple?' A Cathedral expresses one idea, but is indefinitely varied and elaborated in its parts; so is a symphony or quartet of Beethoven." Campbell: "Certainly, Bateman, you must tolerate Pagan architecture, or you must in consistency exclude Pagan or Jewish Gregorians, you must tolerate figured music, or reprobate tracery windows." Bateman: "And which are you for, Gothic with Handel, or Roman with Gregorian?" Campbell: "For both in their place. I exceedingly prefer Gothic architecture to classical. I think it is the one true child and development of Christianity; but I won't for that reason discard the Pagan style which has been sanctified by eighteen centuries, by the exclusive love of many Christian countries, and by the sanction of a host of saints. I am for toleration. Give Gothic an ascendancy; be respectful towards classical."... Reding: "Much as I like modern music, I can't quite go the length to which your doctrine would lead me. I cannot, indeed, help liking Mozart; but surely his music is not religious?" Campbell: "I have not been speaking in defence of particular composers, figured music may be right, yet Mozart or Beethoven inadmissible. In like manner you don't suppose, because I tolerate Roman architecture, that therefore I like naked cupids to stand for cherubs, and sprawling women for the cardinal virtues.... Besides, as you were saying yourself just now, we must consult the genius of our country, and the religious associations of our people." Bateman: "Well, I think the perfection of sacred music is Gregorian set to harmonies; there you have the glorious old chants, and just a little modern richness." Campbell: "And I think it just the worst of all, it is a mixture of two things, each good in itself, and incongruous together. It's a mixture of the first and second courses at table. It's like the architecture of the façade at Milan, half-Gothic, half-Grecian." Reding: "It's what is always used, I believe." Campbell: "Oh, yes, we must not go against the age, it would be absurd to do so. I only spoke of what was right and wrong on abstract principles; and to tell the truth, I can't help liking the mixture myself, though I can't defend it."[59]

The irrepressible Bateman has Gothic and Gregorian on the brain: and in another place goes "on boldly to declare that, if he had his will there should be no architecture in the English churches but Gothic, and no music but Gregorian. This ... gave scope for a very pretty quarrel, Reding said that all these adjuncts of worship, whether music or architecture, were national; they were the mode in which religious feeling showed itself in particular times and places. He did not mean to say that the outward expression of religion in a country might not be guided, but it could not be forced; that it was as preposterous to make people worship in one's own way, as to be merry in one's own way.'... Bateman: 'But surely ... you don't mean to say that there is no natural connection between internal feeling and outward expression, so that one form is no better than another?' Reding: 'Far from it, but let those who confine their music to Gregorians, put up crucifixes in the highways. Each is the representative of a particular locality or time.'... Campbell: 'You can't be more Catholic than Rome, I suppose, yet there's no Gothic there.' Bateman: '... Rome has corrupted the pure Apostolic doctrine, can we wonder that it should have a corrupt architecture?' Reding: 'Why, then, go to Rome for Gregorians?'"[60]

The foregoing would probably open out, in the eyes, say, of the accomplished author of the Vesper Psalter,[61] a wide field for further discussion, but so much may be fairly gathered, viz., that the Cardinal's musical views were sensible ones, even if open, theoretically, to some differences of opinion. Omnia probate, he seems to say, quod bonum est tenete. He had, of course, no sympathy with extravagances. His was a cultured, at any rate a refined taste, sui similis, and when it was said in April, 1886, that Niedermeyer's B minor Mass was "elaborate," he observed: "Well, I like a medium in music, although I may be wrong in that." All was well, we suppose, provided the best gifts of Catholic masters in their art were in good faith proffered to Almighty God. In the words herein of St. Gregory the Great: Mihi placet ut, sive in Romanâ, sive in Galliarum, sive in quâlibet ecclesiâ, aliquid invenisti quod plus omnipotenti Deo possit placere, sollicite eligas.[62] All was well, too, if singers and players were animated with the Catholic spirit that breathed in a Haydn and a Mozart, to say nothing of later giants.[63] Under such conditions, and with due observance of the unaccompanied chant in Advent and Lent, the male choirs of both Oratories in England have probably done a good work, and if so, one worthy of St. Philip's blessing.

It was in April, 1886, that two of the Fathers, along with the writer, played over to Cardinal Newman, Dykes' well-known setting to "Lead, kindly Light," which (he said) he had never heard before, and he seemed rather surprised at its very quiet, hymn-like quality. No piano, he added, could equal the strings, nor any organ,[64] and we gave him the version of the "Lead" by Pinsuti, and West,[65] as also Hurrell Froude's "Tyre"