Attorney-General—You are sure my lord Russell was there?

Lord Howard—Yes, sir; I wish I could say he was not.

Attorney-General—Did he sit there as a cypher? What did my lord say?

Lord Howard—Every one knows my lord Russell is a person of great judgment, and not very lavish in discourse.

Serjeant Jeffreys—But he did consent?

Lord Howard—We did not put it to the vote, but it went without contradiction, and I took it that all there gave their consent.

Solicitor-General—The raising of money you speak of, was that put into in any way?

Lord Howard—No, but every man was to put themselves upon thinking of such a way, that money might be collected without administering jealousy.

Attorney-General—Were there no persons to undertake for a fund?

Lord Howard—No, I think not. However it was but opinion, the thing that was said was jocosely, rather than anything else, that my lord of Essex had dealing in money, and therefore he was thought the most proper person to take care of those things; but this was said rather by way of mirth, than otherwise.

Lord Chief-Justice—My lord Russell, now if your lordship pleases, is the time for you to ask him any questions.

Lord Russell—The most he hath said of me, my lord, is only hearsay; the two times we met, it was upon no formed design, only to talk of news, and talk of things in general.

Lord Chief-Justice—But I will tell you what it is he testifies, that comes nearest your lordship, that so you may consider of it, if you will ask any questions. He says after my lord Shaftesbury went off (all before is but inducement, as to anything that concerns your lordship, and does not particularly touch you; after his going away he says) the party concerned with my lord Shaftesbury did think fit to make choice of six persons to carry on the design of an insurrection or rising, as he calls it, in the kingdom; and that to that purpose, choice was made of the Duke of Monmouth, my lord of Essex, your lordship, my lord Howard, colonel Sidney, and Mr. Hambden.

Lord Russell—Pray my lord, not to interrupt you, by what party (I know no party) were they chosen?

Lord Howard—It is very true, we were not chosen by community, but did erect ourselves by mutual agreement, one with another, into this society.

Lord Russell—We were people that did meet very often.

Lord Chief-Justice—Will your lordship please to have any other questions asked of my lord Howard?

Lord Russell—He says it was a formed design, when we met about no such thing.

Lord Chief-Justice—He says that you did consult among yourselves, about the raising of men, and where the rising should be first, whether in the city of London, or in more foreign parts, that you had several debates concerning it; he does make mention of some of the duke of Monmouth's arguments for its being formed in places from the city; he says you did all agree, not to do anything further in it, till you had considered how to raise money and arms: and to engage the kingdom of Scotland in this business with you, that it was agreed among you that a messenger should be sent into the kingdom of Scotland. Thus far he goes upon his own knowledge, as he saith; what he says after, of sending a messenger, is by report only.

Attorney-General—I beg your pardon, my lord.

Lord Chief-Justice—It is so, that which he heard concerning the sending of Aaron Smith.

Attorney-General—Will you ask him any questions?

Lord Russell—We met, but there was no debate of any such thing, nor putting anything in method. But my lord Howard is a man that hath a voluble tongue, talks very well, and is full of discourse, and we were delighted to hear him.

Attorney-General—I think your lordship did mention the Campbells?

Lord Howard—I did stammer it out, but not without a parenthesis, it was a person of the alliance, and I thought of the name of the Argyles.

Attorney-General—That which I call you to, is to know whether or no, in your managery of this plot, you understand any of the lords were concerned, and which.

Mr. West—My lord, as to my lord Russell, I never had any conversation with him at all, but that I have heard this, that in the insurrection in November, Mr. Ferguson and colonel Rumsey did tell me that my lord Russell intended to go down and take his post in the West, when Mr. Trenchard had failed them.

Lord Chief-Justice—What is this?

Attorney-General—We have proved my lord privy to the consults; now we go about to prove the under-actors did know it.

West—They always said my lord Russell was the man they most depended upon, because he was a person looked upon as of great sobriety.

Lord Russell—Can I hinder people from making use of my name? To have this brought to influence the gentlemen of the jury, and inflame them against me, is hard.

Lord Chief-Justice—As to this, the giving evidence by hearsay will not be evidence; what colonel Rumsey, or Mr Ferguson told Mr. West, is no evidence.

Attorney-General—It is not evidence to convict a man, if there were not plain evidence before; but it plainly confirms what the other swears: but I think we need no more.

Jeffreys—We have evidence without it, and will not use anything of garniture; we will leave it as it is, we won't trouble your lordship any further. I think, Mr. Attorney, we have done with our evidence.