thou hast told me that, then I can say to thee without any doubt that thou hast obtained so many of the anchors as thou hast renounced the lusts of the world.

A. How can I forsake that which I know and am familiar with, and have been used to from childhood, and love that which is unknown to me except by hearsay? Howbeit, I feel sure that if I knew what thou sayest about me as certainly as what I here see for myself, I would love that, and despise this.

R. I wonder why thou speakest so. Suppose now if a letter with seal from thy lord should come to thee, canst thou say thou art not able to understand him by that, nor to recognise his will therein? If thou sayest that thou canst know his will therein, say then whether it seemeth to thee better to follow his will, or to follow after the wealth which he gave thee over and above his friendship.

A. Whether I will or not, I must speak truly, unless I am prepared to lie. If I lie, God knoweth it. Therefore I dare speak only the truth, so far as I can know it. Methinks it is better to forsake the gift, and follow the giver, who is to me the steward both of the riches and of his friendship, unless I can have both. I should like, however, to[24.7—25.23] have both, if I could follow both the wealth and also his will.

R. Full rightly hast thou answered me, but I would ask thee whether thou supposest that thou canst have all that thou now hast without thy lord's friendship.

A. I do not suppose that any man is so foolish as to think that.

R. Thou understandest it rightly enough, but I would know whether thou thinkest that what thou hast is temporal or eternal.

A. I never supposed it to be eternal.

R. What thinkest thou about God and the anchors which we spake of—are they like these, or are they eternal?

A. Who is so mad as to dare say that God is not eternal?

R. If He is eternal, why lovest thou not the eternal Lord more than the temporal? Lo, thou knowest that the Eternal will not leave thee, except thou go from Him; and thou must needs depart from the other whether thou will or no; thou must either leave him, or he thee. Howbeit I perceive that thou lovest him very much, and also fearest and dost well; very rightly and very becomingly thou dost. But I wonder why thou dost not love the Other much more, Him who giveth thee both the friendship of the worldly lord and His own, and, after this world, life eternal. The Lord is the ruler of you both—thine and thy lord's whom thou so immeasurably lovest.

A. I confess to thee that I would love Him above all other things, if I could understand and know Him as I would. But I can understand very little of Him, or nothing at all, and yet at times, when I think carefully of Him, and any inspiration cometh to me about the eternal life, then I by no means prefer this present life to that, nor even love it so much.

R. Wishest thou now to see Him and clearly understand Him?

A. I have no wish above that.

R. Keep, then, His commandments.

A. [25.24—27.13] What commandments?

R. I named them to thee before.

A. Methinks they are very burdensome and very manifold.

R. What one loveth, methinks, is not burdensome.

A. Nor doth any work seem burdensome to me if I can see and have what I work for. But doubt begetteth heaviness.

R. Thou graspest it well enough in speech, and well enough thou understandest it. But I can say to thee that I am the faculty of Reason, which argueth with thee—the discursive faculty whose province it is to explain to thee in such wise that thou mayest see God with thy mind's eyes as clearly as thou now seest the sun with the eyes of the body.

A. Almighty God reward thee! I am truly grateful for thy promise to teach it to me so clearly. Although I was ignorant, yet I emerge from this condition to a clearer vision of Him, if I come to see Him as I now see the sun. Howbeit I do not see the sun so clearly as I would like to. I know very little better what the sun is, though I look on it every day. Still it seemed good to me that I might thus clearly see God.

R. Now consider very earnestly what I formerly said to thee.

A. I will, so much as possible.

R. First know of a truth that the mind is the eye of the soul; secondly, thou must know that it is needful for one to see what one looketh at; the fourth is what one would see. For every one having eyes first looketh at that which he would see till he hath beheld it. When he hath beheld it then he truly seeth it. But thou must know that I who now speak with thee am Reason, and I am to every human mind what looking is to the eyes. Three things it behooveth the eyes of every human body to have; the fourth is what it seeketh and would draw to them. One is that thou[27.13—29.13] hast and usest and lovest that which thou formerly didst hope for.

A. Alas! Shall I ever come to that which I hope for, or shall that ever come to me which I desire?

R. Add now love as a third besides faith and hope; for the eyes of no soul are entirely sound—especially to see God with—if lacking these three. Seeing, then, is knowing.

A. If then there be sound eyes, that is, perfect understanding, what is then wanting to it, or what is more needful?

R. The soul's vision is Reason and Contemplation. But many souls look with these, and yet see not what they desire, because they have not entirely sound eyes. But he who wisheth to see God must have the eyes of his mind whole; that is, he must have an abiding faith and a just hope and a full love. When he hath all these, then hath he life blessed and eternal. The vision which we shall catch of God is knowledge. That knowledge is between two things—between that which understandeth and that which is understood—and is fastened on both even as love is between the lover and the one loved. On both it is fastened, as we said before concerning the anchor-cable that the one end was fast to the ship, and the other to the land.

A. Then if it ever again happeneth that I can see God as thou now teachest me that I should behold Him, would I need all three of the things that thou formerly spakest about, namely: faith and hope and love?

R. What need then is there of faith, when one seeth that which he formerly exercised faith toward, and again knoweth that which he formerly hoped for? But love never waneth—it abideth greatly increased when the understanding is fixed on God; nor hath love ever any end. Omni consummatione uidi finem; latum mandatum tuum nimis:[6] that is, of everything in the world I shall see the end, but the end of thy commandments I shall never see. That is the love about which he prophesied. But, although the soul be perfect and pure while it is in the body, it can not see God as