brother, the physician?

Mrs. Paine. That is right. I visited with friends in the Philadelphia area, while I was at Paoli.

Mr. Jenner. Do you mean by the term "friends" there to mean in the sense I would mean friends?

Mrs. Paine. Yes.

Mr. Jenner. Or members of the Friends Society?

Mrs. Paine. Some were both, but I meant it as personal friends. And then I saw also friends, also both, capital F and small, in Richmond, Ind., and then from there I headed directly south to New Orleans.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mrs. Paine. Shall I go on to arrival at New Orleans?

Mr. Jenner. This spanned a period of a little over 2 months, did it not?

Mrs. Paine. It was just short of 2 months total that I was away from my home in Irving.

Mr. Jenner. And in the meantime you had had the correspondence with Marina that you had related this morning, during the course of your going along, had you?

Mrs. Paine. During that vacation she and I exchanged one letter each.

Mr. Jenner. Yes. Had you advised her that you were coming to New Orleans?

Mrs. Paine. Yes.

Mr. Jenner. For what purpose?

Mrs. Paine. To visit. And to talk.

Mr. Jenner. About what?

Mrs. Paine. To see if it was appropriate for her to come to my house for the birth of the baby.

Mr. Jenner. At that moment, at that time, when you were about to return or about to go to New Orleans, this concept was limited to her coming to be with you for the birth of the child?

Mrs. Paine. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. At least temporarily she abandoned the notion of joining you on a semipermanent basis?

Mrs. Paine. It was abandoned. It was not taken up again.

Mr. Jenner. You arrived in New Orleans?

Mrs. Paine. That is right.

Mr. Jenner. The 20th of September.

Mr. McCloy. Maybe you are going to get to this. Maybe I am anticipating your case, so to speak, but during these visits that you paid to your friends on this trip, did you talk about your association with Marina?

Mrs. Paine. Yes; I did.

Mr. McCloy. You did?

Mrs. Paine. Quite a lot. It was rather an important thing to me.

Mr. Jenner. I have some questions to put to Mrs. Paine on that subject, but they are in the area of the collateral that I spoke of this morning, so I did not go into them at the moment.

Now, starting with your arrival in New Orleans, you got there in the morning or afternoon?

Mrs. Paine. I arrived midafternoon, as I remember.

Mr. Jenner. And you went directly to their home, did you?

Mrs. Paine. Yes.

Mr. Jenner. What did you find when you reached the home?

Mrs. Paine. I was expected. They had groceries bought.

Mr. Jenner. Who was home?

Mrs. Paine. Marina and Lee, and the baby June.

Mr. Jenner. I don't have a calendar before me. The 20th of September is what day of the week?

Mrs. Paine. Is a Friday.

Mr. Jenner. 1963?

Mrs. Paine. I spent the night there that night and the succeeding 2 nights. Lee who bought the groceries while I was there, was host. At one point Mrs. Ruth Kloepfer, who has been previously mentioned, came and visited with her sister—excuse me, with her two daughters. This was after I had made a telephone call to her.

Mr. Jenner. These daughters were adults or were they children?

Mrs. Paine. The daughters were grown daughters.

Mr. Jenner. Grown?

Mrs. Paine. In college, college-age daughters, and one had been studying Russian, didn't know very much. I was impressed with the role that Lee took of the general host, talking with them, looking over some slides that one of the daughters had brought of her trip, recent trip to Russia, showing sights that they recognized, I guess, in Moscow.

Mr. Jenner. That the girls recognized?

Mrs. Paine. No; that Lee and Marina recognized of Moscow, or Lee did, at least. And he was very outgoing and warm and friendly. He seemed in good spirits that weekend. I found him—he made a much better impression on me, I will say, that weekend than the last weekend I had seen him, which was in May.

I could see, and it was the first time that I felt that he was concerned about his wife's physical welfare and about where she could go to have the baby, and he seemed distinctly relieved to consider the possibility of her going to Dallas County and getting care through Parkland Hospital, and clearly pleased that I wanted to offer this, and pleased to have her go, which relieved my mind a good deal.

I hadn't wanted to have such an arrangement come about without his being interested in having it that way.

Mr. Jenner. During the course of this, did you say you were there 3 days?

Mrs. Paine. Three nights, two days.

Mr. Jenner. Two days and three nights; there was then a discussion between yourself and Marina, yourself on the one hand, Marina and Lee on the other, in which it was determined that Marina would return with you to Irving, Tex., for the purpose of having the birth of her child in Irving?

Mrs. Paine. That is right.

Mr. Jenner. And Lee did participate in those discussions?