down the other provisions of the bill to secure it.

We have progressed far enough to put just exactly this provision in a circular form in the hands of every trades unionist in the State of Illinois at the present time, and we are going to find out what the rank and file of the workers want. Just as soon as the six labor members on the Commission find out what the workers of the State want we will then try to incorporate it into the bill. A circular has also gone forth from the Commission to the employers of the State, trying to crystallize their ideas into a concrete proposition, and then the six members of the Commission representing the employers and the six members representing the workingmen will sit down at a table and thresh this out just as a committee would do that was trying to settle a wage scale, and I believe we will arrive at some understanding; and when we arrive at an understanding with our employers who represent organized capital in the State of Illinois, and six trade unionists representing the organized workers in the State of Illinois, I believe that that position will be accepted by both sides, and that when we go to the next Legislature they will incorporate that into law, and it will be signed by the governor and put into full force and effect.

I want to say just a word as to why we were anxious to have the Commission organized as it is. The original plan of the provision provided that the public should be represented, but the public is not particularly interested in this matter, not nearly so much as the other parties. The life of the employer is at stake in this matter. If we build up conditions so high that he will have to leave the State or abandon his property, he cannot afford to pay wages to the workingmen. We, on the other hand, have all we have to lose; we have not only our trade, but we have our lives at stake, and the public has no voice in it. Organized capital, through the Manufacturers' Association, the Mine Operators' Association, and so forth, has a voice. Organized labor has a voice, but if the public has any voice at all it does not amount to a great deal in the State of Illinois. We who have put everything that we possess into the balance in this matter expect to get something out of it which is definite, just and fair; and we have good reason to expect that after we have taken this matter up and threshed it out from one end of the State to the other that it will be to the advantage of the Legislature to meet us half-way. I have been in the Legislature as a labor lobbyist for some years and I have had a little experience in such matters.

I do not know, Mr. Chairman, as I can enlighten you very much on what we are going to do. We have taken up the State Bureau of Labor report which we received from the secretary of the Bureau of Labor, who is here present, and we tried to get at the real meaning of that report. We intend to take up the state factory inspector's reports also, and try to get at and understand the real meaning of all these figures in these reports. It is one thing to publish column after column of figures which nobody reads and nobody pays any attention to, but it is an entirely different proposition to get back of those columns of figures and see what they stand for. These columns of figures stand for men's lives and they stand for the happiness of the family; yes, and they stand for the prosperity of the employer as well.

In looking up a state report the other day I found an analysis that interested me. It showed apparently that every householder in the State of Massachusetts was paying $30 a year indirectly on account of the industrial accidents and occupational diseases that occurred in that State. That is where the public comes in; it costs the public too much. Should not that be shifted back upon the employer, and if it is shifted back upon the employer, the employer will, if possible, prevent the accidents, because it costs a great deal less to furnish suitable protection for the machinery than it does to pay damages to the injured employe or to the families of those who are killed.

I want to say this for the trades unions; we do not wish to rob the employer; we do not wish any bill that will materially injure the employer. We want to stop the accidents. We do not want damages from the employers; we want our brothers to remain alive and able to do their work.

Chairman Mercer: Is there any member of the first Illinois Commission present?

Prof. Ernst Freund (Illinois): Professor Henderson asked me a few years ago to give a little assistance in the drafting of the measure that the Commission had decided upon, and that is the only share I had in the work of that first Illinois Commission. That Commission was appointed for the sole purpose of reporting upon schemes of insurance. The whole matter of compensation was, therefore, only indirectly involved; at the same time the report as to insurance was unlimited, as far as I know, and not limited to accidents, but the Commission thought wise to confine their recommendations to an insurance scheme covering simply the matter of accidents.

They found that it would have been extremely difficult to recommend or try to secure some plan of compulsory insurance, and for that reason it was finally suggested that there should be an opportunity offered for the employers to make a contract with the employes by which the employers and the employes together might substitute for the liability under the common law or statute a plan of insurance which was worked out with some care, to some extent upon the basis of the English act, one of the main features being that the employers and employes should contribute each one-half of the insurance premium. But the whole scheme was a tentative one, especially this feature, which was so much opposed, of the sharing of the cost of insurance between the employers and employes, and it was by no means suggested as a final solution. The whole matter was a tentative method of dealing with this problem, it being believed that in this way the plan of insurance might get a foothold in the State and might approve itself by experience.

At the same time there was a very strong opposition and perhaps Mr. Wright could speak to that point, because Mr. Wright was one of those who opposed that scheme very strongly, and nothing came of it. I may say that in the same year Massachusetts passed a very similar measure, and that measure has been in effect now for several years, I believe, with very little practical result.

I think the failure or lack of suggestion of the plan of Massachusetts was due to the fact perhaps that the public was not sufficiently familiarized with the scheme, and no determined effort was made to introduce it.

As I say, the matter was suggested in Illinois as a tentative solution, not by any means as anything final; and I think it was felt that a compensation scheme of some kind would probably be called for sooner or later, and that was the reason the Legislature was urged to make provision for a compensation commission, which commission is now studying the problem.

Massachusetts.

James A. Lowell (Massachusetts): I am the last thing in commissions, together with these other gentlemen with me. We are just about a day old, and not quite that old. We were appointed in a great hurry when the bill went through, in order to get here to listen and find out what was being done by the other States, and in order to make up our mind what should be done in Massachusetts.

The only thing I desire to say now is to explain the kind of a commission this is. Massachusetts has got so far under the resolution appointing us that they say, "We want other laws." We are not to investigate the question of whether other laws would be good or